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We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which we record this podcast. The Gadigal people. This is their land, never ceded, always sacred and pay respects to the elders past, present, and emerging of this place. 

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(Bright, uplifting music with electronic beats and cheerful synth melodies.)

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[00:00:17] Voice Over

Coming up on Remarkable Insights

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[00:00:19] Mel Tran: 

When disability is added to the equation, technology becomes a very powerful enabler and a catalyst for change. 

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[00:00:28] Viv: 

Can design reimagine our world? Welcome to Remarkable Insights. I'm Viv Mullan, and today we have Mel Tran, a designer whose work fuses tech, health, and social good.

Mel, so great to have you here. Can you introduce yourself and anything you'd like our audience to know about how you choose to identify? 

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[00:00:46] Mel Tran: 

Thank you, Viv. First of all, thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure to be here today and to spend a bit of time with you. My name is Mel. I can say my pronouns. are she/her. I am a designer by trade. I worked as a design manager at a consulting firm called 'Nouse' and I have worked specifically in the digital design and data practice. My background is more from a user experience and product development designer. Yeah, I'm sure we would dive deeper into this as we go.

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[00:01:25] Viv: 

We will. I would love to unpack and learn about the beginning of your journey where you started to really want to explore the intersection of disability and tech and design. 

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[00:01:37] Mel Tran: 

I wanted to start off as an industrial designer. So I approached one of the universities here in Sydney, one of the main and well known universities. And I met with the program coordinator and I asked him, "would you be able to modify the course? Given that half of the course, looked quite some hands on work". And then he went on and said, "I've had multiple people like you in my class over the years who have dropped off halfway because they just realised it was just too difficult for them".

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And then he sort of said, "In my opinion, I think someone like you should do something like law. Because all you have to do is move your mouth". As you can tell that conversation went down very well. And I found the digital media course at Torrens University. And I think I sat down and I I had the same conversation. With program director and I said to him, "do you think I would be able to do this course?", and he said, "well, if you're referring to academic wise, I don't know, because I've literally just met you. But if you're referring to the physical aspects, yes, we may have to make some adjustments, but we are a design school after all.

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So it's our job to be creative". And, Taught me to see that things don't always work the way it should and, or it doesn't always work the way it could. As designers, as individuals, it's our job to find innovative ways to make things work. 

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[00:03:36] Viv: 

I love that. And I know that you have previously described disability as a force, of innovation in your role as a UX designer, and I wonder, do you have any examples of how that has been the case?

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[00:03:54] Mel Tran: 

Great question. I think, one example, I think that we all have a shared, global, collective, experience of is probably the global pandemic, and I know this word has been thrown around many, many times over the last few years, and it's still somewhat the center of our conversations, but I think it's easy to relate to once we've all gone through a collective period of challenges and uncertainty and change.

And I think that's the same, principle applies to disability, I think, as a person with a disability, you constantly face challenges with everyday living, living activities, accessing just society in general, there's always challenges and barriers that in a way for personally it forces me to think differently.

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[00:05:01] Viv: 

And this idea of as a UX designer and understanding the critical importance of user feedback, what do you think good practice of user feedback looks like? 

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[00:05:12] Mel Tran: 

Oh, great question. I think the first and foremost kind of principle that I hold very closely is empathy, and I think that travels through from the very beginning of design and developing a solution right through to the very end. Good practice is when you pause before you jump into solution mode before you even define the problem. Because I think to solve the problem, you need to first understand the problem. And you won't understand the problem unless you speak to people. Unless you understand the needs, the motivations, the behaviors, the attitudes. Once you have an understanding of the problem, and that comes with collecting unique perspectives, that's when you can start shifting into the solution mode. Once again. This entire process is and should be driven by collective experiences as well as unique perspectives. 

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[00:06:27] Viv: 

And what do you think is maybe the biggest misconception in the work you do about disability and technology?

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[00:06:34] Mel Tran: 

Technology is an enabler. And it plays such a huge role in the disability sector, not only to support and improve the daily living, like, we all rely on technology, and it has, played such a huge role in our lives, a little bit out of disability, but I think when disability is added to the equation, technology becomes a very powerful enabler and a catalyst for change, for more positive social change, which I think isn't always seen as a case and I think if you see it from this perspective you'll see disability from a social model rather than just a pure medical model where it's just passive recipients of support.

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[00:07:32] Viv: 

And what's a piece of advice you would give to any product designers or US designers who are trying to design genuinely accessible and inclusive, equitable solutions from the get go, what is one piece of advice you would give to them? 

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[00:07:48] Mel Tran: 

It's okay to make mistakes and it's okay to fail. Because , that's how we learn, but I think also, it's okay to be bold, and to be brave, and to try new things, and to not shy away from, a challenge that may be deemed too difficult or too hard to solve.

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[00:08:12] Viv: 

I think it's such a great point. Particularly, I've heard it before where people say they're new to the disability space and they don't know where to start. And so it scares them to ask questions about ways they can improve or, you know, just start learning because they're worried they will get it wrong and. Is that something that you have experienced firsthand about working with designers and asking them to be more aware of accessibility in the design? 

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[00:08:40] Mel Tran: 

Absolutely. I think I did a bit of both extremes. I've had experiences where I'll have people who flat out say, "I haven't had an experience. in the disability sector before. I haven't done any work or haven't, don't have anyone in my network with a disability. It just seems very complicated and hard. So I've always put it in a too hard basket". And then you get conversations with people from the other extreme who they will say, "I haven't had any experience with people with disability before or the disability sector in general. But I am curious, and I want to learn. Forgive me if I ask questions that may seem ignorant. But I want to learn, so please tell me, and I will ask". And I think, as designers, we are inherently curious people. We ask questions, we probe, and we find out what . It's in our nature. To ask questions, to probe, and to use that curiosity that we have to build, To live and to use that as a way to get more creative, to get more innovative.And I think that's just final point, channel the curiosity and ask questions. 

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[00:10:14] Viv: 

So great. And at the end of these conversations, I like to ask our guests to leave people who've been enjoying the episode with a Remarkable Insight. In your case, it could be a piece of advice about design or anything that you would like people to continue to think about.

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[00:10:32] Mel Tran: 

I think the one piece of insight that I would like to leave, or to take away, is that challenges and barriers drive innovation. And I'm not just talking about disability, it is in a much more broader context in terms of, we all have our own stories. We all have challenges and barriers that we face on a daily basis. And rather than, and I think those challenges and a unique perspective and lived experience, lived experiences can become very powerful drivers and catalysts for change if you let it. And if you are open to having that, going on that transformative journey and Technology and innovation are enablers that will help get you there.

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[00:11:35] Viv: 

The full interview with our guests can be found in the link below where you press play on this podcast, our show notes. Make sure you subscribe or hit follow to not miss another Remarkable Insights episode.

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