[00:00:00] Voice Over
We would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the lands on which we record this podcast. The Gadigal people. This is their land, never ceded, always sacred and pay respects to the elders past, present, and emerging of this place. 

‍

[00:00:16] 
(Bright, uplifting music with electronic beats and cheerful synth melodies.)

‍

[00:00:17] Voice Over
Coming up on Remarkable Insights

‍

[00:00:19] Ryan Curtis-Johnson: 
What's right for business is good for society. So what's good for society is good for business. And so if we can get that balance, it changes that perception. 

‍

[00:00:27] VO:
How can businesses go beyond just talking about disability inclusion and actually hold themselves accountable for real lasting change?  In this episode of Remarkable Insights, we explore the intersection of disability inclusion, business leadership and innovation with Ryan Curtis-Johnson, Chief Communication Officer at The Valuable 500.

‍

[00:00:47] Kate:
Ryan, so good to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us all the way from London. Can you share what led to your focus on disability inclusion and how it's shaped the work you're doing now with The Valuable 500? 

[00:01:00] Ryan Curtis-Johnson:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you firstly for having me. I feel like I've done a full circle when it comes to kind of disability. I first started out by probably around about the age of 16, 17, working for a company called Chickenshed Theatre Company, which is an all-inclusive theatre company here in the UK. Probably more well-known widely when sadly Princess Diana died, they recorded a song. And so they set up, they had a waiting list. They're the only, at the time, they are the only inclusive theatre which invited all abilities and they brought all abilities together.

And basically, they had a waiting list of over 7,000 people wanting to attend this school, which was in North London, in Cockfosters. So what they actually did was set up an initiative to drive that program into local communities and was supported by local councils. And so I was part of the one for Havering, which was called Habit Shed. And we kind of worked on that. And it was amazing. And I've kind of always been quite aligned, you know, I've had friends and family members that have disabilities and always been connected and always had a kind of moment. And then I kind of came away from it and then went to college, then went back into disability. I worked within a school looking after and supporting two children, one with Down Syndrome and one with Autism. And then I left there and I went into the entertainment industry and did some dancing and bits and pieces like that, full circle back, worked in the industry for a little bit, then got into comms, then worked in an agency for over 10 years. And I think COVID, various different things kind of happened, made us all see the world in a really different light that made me realise that I wasn't doing something that I felt 100 % passionate about, that I actually felt like I wasn't doing good. And so then from there kind of fell into the valuable 500. 

‍

[00:02:58] Kate:
The Valuable 500 is driven by the mission to remove disability exclusion from business. Can you explain why this issue is so critical and why it's essential for business to take action now? 

‍

[00:03:11] Ryan Curtis-Johnson:
We have to thank Caroline Casey, our founder. She best describes herself as a troublemaker. I always, I think that was the selling point when I did get to meet her, even in the interview stage, that anyone who describes themselves as a troublemaker, to do good, is a win for me. And I think that the reason why this is so important was because of her own backstory, because she didn't self-disclose within the workplace and she didn't feel confident enough to do so, that actually then when she did and she got to a point where she needed to, she felt like there must be other people that are feeling like this as well. And she can't be the only one. And then actually when you then look at a world that is not really accessible to everyone, you know, we are on strides to move that dial forward and do better, but the world isn't accessible to all.

And so this is why this is even more important because a great belief that we have is if we wait for legislation and we wait for governments and we wait for all of the powers that be to make the changes, we'll be waiting even longer. And so business has a great opportunity to make that change. And what we often say and our CEO, Katie Talikowska, will say is that what's right for business is good for society. And so what's good for society is good for business. And so if we can get that balance, then, and the people and the cultures that we kind of have within our organisations and that organisations have, hopefully that just trickles into society and changes that perception and that way of possibly seeing the world differently. 

‍

[00:04:49] Kate:
You know, a report that I saw of yours, about a quarter of the valuable 500 it said do not engage in consumer stakeholder insights at all and less than a third of respondents do not target a disabled consumer, which to me is phenomenal because it's a huge market and there's a lot of spending power. Why do you think this is the case and why do you think it's important that this changes?

‍

[00:05:18] Ryan Curtis-Johnson:
I think it is changing, so I like to caveat that we have done that report and we can see a real sort of shift. I think fear is often what prevents and I think that is the key and I think then the other thing that comes into it is budget, which I always find really hard to swallow that pill because, you know, morally that doesn't feel right that we would put a figure on something that is just right for everybody and it's inclusive. But I think one of the key things to it is the fact that there is a lot of fear, about getting it wrong, not quite ready, that kind of confidence. And I think the solution sometimes is really simple and not to sort of like try and give it away as this is what every business should be doing. Because it really is different, different models in every organisation. But the key is keeping it simple, keeping it simple.

Also being able to own, you may get it wrong, but then the fact that you own the fact that you've got it wrong. Speak with the community. The hardest thing I find is often things are put into place or come up with a concept. And when you ask or you try and find out who was around the table, what disabled talent was around the table during those decisions. And that's often where there's a misconception because sometimes it isn't. That hasn't been involved. So then people are making decisions on things when actually it doesn't affect them personally. And I think that is the key, keep it simple. We need to have more disabled talent around the table making the decisions, better representation. And leaders I think are open, they really are open to it. It's just there's fear amongst others that then can sometimes kind of suppress that a little bit. And I think we just all, I think it's hard because of the society we live in and cancel culture and you do something wrong, it's going to go and that often can prevent people from really pushing boundaries. And I think that's something we have to try and get the balance a little bit better at. 

‍

[00:07:30] Kate:
Yeah, that's a massive challenge, isn't it? I think you're right about the intention as well, you know, if you go in with the right intention and put your hands up and say, you know, we're making every effort to do the right thing. We certainly play by that at Remarkable. But I'd love to know, what does true accountability look like when moving from initial recognition to lasting systematic change? 

‍

[00:07:57] Ryan Curtis-Johnson:
I always quote this quite a lot. She should probably get some commission, Caroline. But Caroline Casey uses a really good example. Labels are for jam jars. And when we're dealing with humans, we're dealing with humans. So we need to just deal with humans. And I think sometimes I understand we do need labels and we do need to put, you know, certain sort of names on things, but it's true, we aren't just people. People are not just products that we can just put a label on and then that's its stamp of approval. We have to completely do everything that we do with the intent that we are just dealing with humans and humans love a human element to it in all that we do. So I think that's another part of accountability is that authenticity is so key for any business because you see the return. People can see through it now and that's probably the hardest thing for an organisation. 

‍

[00:07:47] Kate:
With The Valuable 500, it brings together 500 companies in a collective effort, which is incredible. How do you measure the success of such a large scale initiative? What are the key metrics or indicators that are most critical for you to track?

‍

[00:09:11] Ryan Curtis-Johnson:
So we have three key areas. So we're heading into a really poignant time for the valuable 500 as we head towards SYNC 25. So SYNC 25 is our first accountability summit in Tokyo, Japan. And that will be the first accountability summit where we will be held accountable. We will all be held accountable. And what have we been doing to support in that kind of buildup, is we have three key areas. Three synchronized collective actions. To give like a visual description briefly of what synchronized collective actions means is Caroline, our founder is blind. So it is that whole idea of a murmuration. So if we imagine birds of prey or fish in the sea, it's all moving in the same direction, but you may not be at the start. You can be at any point in that murmuration, but there is still the same destination you're heading to. And for us, that is to end disability exclusion. 

‍

[00:10:12] Kate:
Ryan, finally, could you please leave our listeners with a remarkable insight about disability technology and innovation?

‍

[00:10:22] Ryan Curtis-Johnson:
Yeah, I can. I have to say I'm going to steal elements of what Caroline says and Katie, our CEO. I think it's really about keep it simple, but more importantly, understanding what morally is the right thing to do. And I think if you can keep to those two factors and lead and navigate the world utilising those, surely then inclusivity is what then feeds into that naturally and happens straight away. 

So I think the key to it, what I would say to any organisation, if it morally doesn't feel right, then that's probably not the right decision. So really think about, does this feel right? And if it does, I would always go with that. But understand, keep it simple, make sure that it's fine to get it wrong, just own it. Own it and take that ownership to move that forward. But most importantly, people with disabilities, both visible and non-visible, are humans at the end of the day. So morally, this moral compass and dealing with people, we're not dealing with a different type of human, we're dealing just with humans. And so often it's about just treating everyone equally as we would everyone else.

‍

[00:11:41] VO:
The full interview with our guests can be found in the link below where you press play on this podcast, Our Show Notes. Make sure you subscribe or hit follow to not miss another Remarkable Insights episode.